There are all sorts of dangers.
Postal workers, fire men, police officers,
everything has a risk to it.
I would prefer personally to have a challenging, stimulating,
emotionally and spiritually rewarding career that is short
rather than have a long one that's filled with mediocrity,
feeling as if you don't make any difference to people.
Tiller has performed legal abortions since 1973.
His Women's Healthcare Services Clinic
is just one of three in the nation,
which perform late term abortions
after the 21st week of pregnancy.
For more than two decades,
George Tiller was a target of anti-abortion extremists.
His Wichita's clinic was bombed in 1985.
In 1993, he was shot in both arms,
and then at the age of 67
he was murdered at church.
Was he caught unaware?
I believe so.
And do you feel that you have successfully completed your mission?
He's been stopped.
On Twitter one person wrote,
"Happy day! Tiller the baby killer is dead."
Another wrote, "God Bless the gunman."
Clearly the passions on this issue have not gone away.
This man is executing babies about to be born in late term.
Tiller is dead. We move on to the next battle.
We move on to the next villain.
Now U.S. Marshals are stepping up security
for others who may be targets.
The death of Dr. Tiller leaves only four doctors in the country
who are able to perform late-term abortions.
Dr. Tiller and I, all this time realize that we're targets.
That we've taken this job knowing that we're targets.
This is the result of 35 years of anti-abortion harassment,
and terrorism, and hateful behavior.
We're doing a legal, desperately needed service,
Dr. Tiller knew that I was going to continue this work,
no matter what, and I am.
Hail Mary full of grace, the Lord is with Thee.
Blessed art thou among women and blessed
is the fruit of thy womb Jesus.
Holy Mary mother of God
pray for us sinners,
Now and in the hour of our death, Amen.
Glory be to the Father,
and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, Amen.
Yeah.
Okay.
And you're welcome to watch or not watch anything.
You're gonna see what you wanna see,
So, anything that's bothering you
for any reason then you try and call, okay?
Sand?
It's okay.
You got that?
- Yes. - I just can't I keep...
Take a deep breath and hold it.
Just take a deep breath and then hold it, you'll be fine.
And let it out slow.
It's perfectly okay.
You know, it really is.
Okay.
You know it's emotion,
that's the point in time that you can start to feel.
Okay.
Alright, you take care of her.
If you need just to talk to somebody call us, okay?
Is somebody with you today?
Where are you staying tonight?
I may be going back to Lincoln. I'll be fine.
I know you will.
But you got to remember you're an hour away.
So if you have any questions or problems tonight,
call at the beginning of the question or problem.
Don't wait for an hour or two to find out where we are, okay?
Okay, I will. Thank you.
I'd rather talk to you 10 times and tell you everything's okay
than wish I'd talked to you once, okay?
Okay. Thank you.
Bye bye.
George's life path affected all of us.
You know, the only thing we have to do,
Shelley, and Susan, Dr. Hern, and myself
is to continue his work.
The battleground of abortion
moves from Kansas to Nebraska.
At the Center of this national debate, Dr. LeRoy Carhart.
Carhart pledged to continue providing third trimester abortion services
after a Kansas abortion provider was murdered earlier this year.
You know, George and I are both ex-military
and the mission is first.
And you know, he said, the most important thing
is that the practice carries on.
And so, the day that Dr. Tiller was murdered
there was just no other thoughts in my mind but to carry on the mission.
I love it when people keep saying,
"Doc, when are you gonna do the shot?"
"I already did do the shot."
"You did? I didn't feel anything."
- So did you feel you got shot today? - When are you gonna do the shot?
You know, after Dr. Tiller was assassinated
there was absolutely no question
in the three doctors who worked for him,
in any of our minds
that we were gonna keep on doing his work.
You know, Shelley and I decided we wanna do this together.
It's kind of like a package deal.
And so we finally found a clinic in New Mexico in Albuquerque
that wanted to add this service so we could go work there.
And, since we both live in California, we alternate weeks flying there to work.
If you want this, which way?
If that's out I like that, then I need to go and-
Right. Yeah. This means, like, "go in"
and this means "I'm in".
So the way I met Dr. Tiller was I had started working
as an abortion provider in California.
And I had gone to a conference and he was there.
And he said, "The woman's body is smarter than the doctors."
So you know,
I had come from a midwifery background,
so when I heard that, I just piped up, "That's midwifery."
And he was a little startled, "What?"
I said, "That's midwifery."
And within five minutes, he had offered me a job.
That's how we met.
I really, really, really liked him.
And I felt very close to him
and I did consider him a friend.
And I miss him a lot.
And there's so often times where I think,
"God, I'd really like to call him and talk to him."
Yeah, I miss him tremendously.
Both of you, have a baby who's really sick
and both of you are facing babies that would really suffer a lot,
and that's why you're here, really.
So that's what you have in common.
And how far along are you?
Well, I think like 28, 29, or 30.
It's because we've had one doctor say
one thing and then another say another.
Yeah, us too.
I mean, did you all find out through sonogram?
Yeah we did.
We actually found out about a week and a half ago.
Up until then, I mean, we thought everything was fine.
Then we went in to have ultrasound.
They said she had a disease called Arthrogryposis,
where she can't bend at her joints.
So, she wouldn't be able to walk or-
I mean, everyday tasks like eating,
it's like she will need help with everything.
Well, we're both athletes.
We know how it feels to have fun, play, run around
and just knowing that our daughter won't be able to do that was -
It's pretty hard to live with and so we decided that it was just -
we'd rather not put her through all that.
Like will we want to live our lives like that?
Like just try to put ourselves in,
like, how she would have felt growing up,
you know, it just didn't seem fair to her.
What's it been like for you?
It's very hard.
Louise, my sister, had a baby-a girl.
My other sister's pregnant right now, about to have a boy.
And, I was the third, about to have a girl.
So, everyone was excited.
But now it's kinda like...
it's kinda over now.
Yeah.
I think about what I do all the time
and I recognize what I do.
And at times I struggle and at times, I don't.
But I always come back to the woman
and what she's going through.
And often, what life will this baby have?
What will it mean to be alive with horrific fetal abnormalities?
It's not just about being alive,
it's about life and what does it mean.
Thank you.
Ours is a corpus callosum.
Obviously, if the baby didn't get part of his brain,
what outcome of that can possibly be good?
And, ours has been guilt because it's guilt no matter which way you go.
Guilt, if you go ahead and do what we're doing,
or bring him into this world
and then he just doesn't have any quality of life.
We had already gone shopping for the room.
And, we had already bought a crib.
And we had already bought dressers,
and we had already bought a lot of stuff
and then, we talked and we,
we tried to figure out why this happened
and what we had done wrong.
'Cause I have 11-year old son already and he's a god kid, and he's perfect.
So, I kind of - and I've coached him in all the sports.
We just finished basketball and when we met with you yesterday,
and when you left the room,
I mean, we - and we prayed, and I said,
If I'm not supposed to be here,
if we're not supposed to do this
give us a sign right now.
Tell us now, we'll get up and we'll leave.
I want my life and my child to have as good a chance as anybody
and have a quality of life.
And, I mean most people, they don't go through anything like this.
They don't understand the guilt that goes along with it.
You wanna do the right thing and this is not per se the right thing
as some people would view it.
But I think in the end, especially, the baby,
not to bring them into this hard world like that.
And obviously, these babies, you know,
they will be angels, and they will go to Heaven.
They haven't done anything.
You know, why are those - why do those things happen
to people that do want them?
You know, what do you go home and say...
Well, actually, let me give you a few tips on what to say.
The baby was sick.
We went for testing.
The baby didn't make it.
It's hard for me to talk about it right now.
That's four sentences.
The baby was sick, yeah.
We went for testing, yeah.
Baby didn't make it, yes.
It's hard for me to talk about it right now.
There's nothing else you need to say.
What's important is that you've had a loss,
and right now it's hard for you to talk about it.
After a woman has had a third trimester abortion,
I routinely ask, do you feel any regrets?
And I have yet to hear anyone say that,
"Yes, I regret it."
But that's just the next day.
I don't know how she'll feel a week later, a year later, two years later.
And she doesn't know, either.
I like to say, you know, you made your decision
based on what's going on for you now.
You can't look into the future and know where you'll be.
So, if you should feel regret and you might,
try to be kind to yourself
and try to remember why you made your decision then,
because life has changed.
This is considered a late term facility.
This is specifically what they target.
He is one of the few in the United States that does it.
How do you know that, you see that they have stomachs
they're going in here, and coming out with no stomachs.
No, they don't.
It's hideous, absolutely hideous.
So, I just - I wanna pray just for the - you know, for the children
that have been lost. We ask for healing for these mothers
that are the ones choosing to do this.
This, well, this just feels like evil here.
Good morning, Doctor Hern.
Good morning, how are you today?
Good. Did you have the first patient set up?
Yeah, please.
Isn't it ridiculous that people get together to smoke marijuana
in a public place, to see what it does to your brain?
You know, for most people it doesn't matter.
So, how are you feeling?
- Yeah, much better. - Yeah.
- I'm glad that it's done. - Uhumm...
And I feel relieved that I can put what happened behind me -
- Right. - And move on with my life.
When did you first start thinking you might be pregnant?
When I missed my first period about 25 weeks ago.
And I just pretended I was so stressed out from it
that it was just stress that was causing the miss it.
And I didn't wanna face the reality.
- Right... - and then I did.
Did you report this to the police or anything?
No I never reported it to the police.
But I have been seeing a counselor and she said I need to go.
- You should report it. - Yeah...
The person that raped you committed a crime and that's not okay.
It's not acceptable and it's -
this person can't be permitted to do that to you or to anybody else.
I'd be mortified, too, if I found out
he did it to someone else, later on.
Exactly, even if that weren't true, you need to have justice.
Yeah.
You know, if you need any help, you know, you just let me know.
Okay.
That you were here and you needed to have this done.
Okay, thank you, that means a lot to me.
- You bet, okay... - Okay, I will report it.
So you're gonna come here for your follow up exam?
Yup, in a month.
- Well, you have a safe trip home. - I will...
Okay. Think you better stay out of slopes for the next few weeks,
even though that might be some...
I will. Thank you so much.
You're welcome, you have a safe trip home, okay?
- I will... - Alright.
When I was in medical school,
I loved delivering babies. I thought it was wonderful.
You know I thought the whole thing was miraculous, people are very happy,
I love doing that.
And then when I was a peace corps physician in Brazil,
there was one ward full of women recovering from child birth,
and there are two wards full of women recovering from illegal abortion.
About 40 or 50 per cent of the women who have had illegal abortions died.
And then when I was on pediatrics, we took care of children, babies.
They were abused, they were battered.
And these babies would come in and be hopelessly damaged,
brain damaged and terribly injured,
because the parents didn't want them,
or they were not prepared to be parents or whatever.
There was a stark contrast between the women
who were having babies they wanted and ready to care for them,
and the women who for one reason or another
were not gonna take care of their babies and continue with that.
So I've looked at this from the beginning as a public health issue.
I met Dr. Tiller in the late '70s.
The first time that I did a third trimester abortion was in 1982.
And during the last 15 years or so, we were among the only people
in the world doing really late abortions.
Bellevue, Nebraska.
Good morning sweetheart.
Honey, we're out here because we care about you.
Now there's a center right across the street,
that'll give you free help and support.
Please come out and talk with us.
We have a referral from Doctor LeRoy Carhart,
Well, of gyneacology, I guess is a nice way to put it.
Mary and I met in the fifth grade, her desk was in front of mine.
And I was always a pain in the ass, like she used to have pig tails
and I used to put them... they used to have real ink wells.
So, we've really just been together since we were like twelve.
And she's also the administrator of the clinic so...
I'd rather do what needs be done which is always a lot.
I think the fact that she's here gives me the strength to continue.
You know I just think that's the total difference.
He sleeps at night, I'm the one who can't sleep at night.
But... I just don't worry.
- Good evening, I'm Rob McCartney. - I'm Brandi Petersen.
Nebraska is again at the forefront of the abortion debate.
Today, lawmakers heard proposal that would limit any abortion
in the state to twenty weeks.
Metal detectors and tight security
greet those wanting to testify
in the "Fetal Pain Prevention Act" in the Capitol Building.
It will place Nebraska as the first state to ban abortions after twenty weeks
of a pregnancy because some say that's when a fetus feels pain.
In the wake of Dr. Tiller's murder in Kansas,
Dr. Carhart, a Bellevue physician, commented to the press that
he was expanding his late-term abortion practice.
While the bill does not impact the majority of situations.
It will provide a needed protection for the unborn child
who is twenty weeks of age from the painful procedures of an abortion.
Our goal is not merely to make abortion illegal
but to make it unthinkable.
Women deserve better than abortion and our society can do better.
My bill does not make the patient a criminal.
The criminal sanction applies to the provider of the abortion.
I hate it that he's here in Nebraska,
I hate it that he's anywhere in America,
I mean this guy is, is a sick individual.
If I just give up and stop doing anything after twenty weeks
some, women, may get desperate and do things on their own.
When I was in medical school, it was during the time when
abortion was still not legal, and I saw the woman that I just looked
and I looked at her at cervix and I knew something was wrong.
And she just said, "I tried using a chopstick."
And I've to start over like three times now because of the protestors.
One more time, can we do it and will we do it?
If that's what it comes down to, yes.
Okay, well I'm glad you ask that question
because this is not going to be a surgery.
This is going to be a labor and delivery.
Okay, what we're going to do on the first day is we're going to start
dilating the cervical canal. Cervix is the opening to the uterus.
And also on that first day, we euthanize the fetus.
And that is done via injection through your abdominal wall
and into the fetal heart with the drug called Digoxin,
and that stops the heart.
Okay, the third day, we're going to be giving you a drug
that's going to induce contractions.
Sometimes the delivery will happen very quickly
sometimes it takes many hours.
But bottom line is you're gonna go through a labor and delivery.
Okay, so you need to be in, psychologically prepared for that.
Alright?
Part of reason that we do abortions this way,
is because we want to preserve the integrity
of your reproductive organs.
We want you to be able to have kids in the future.
To us that's a no brainer, right?
We wanna, we wanna be sure that you can,
that you can have a family when you wanna have a family.
So, I would like you to kind of not worry about that anymore.
Alright, so did you wanna go ahead and schedule an appointment?
Okay.
So I'll do the procedure in two and I'll meet you in four.
- Okay. - Okay? Thank you.
So, this is Monica.
But she's got a lethal fetal condition.
Right, yes, yes, she's very sad.
And she says, "I want this baby, I want this baby."
So, can you tell me a little bit about, you know,
when you first found out about this anomaly and how you reacted to that,
and a little bit about the history of this pregnancy?
Well, I was already 25 going on 26 weeks,
but the MRI came back with
what's called which is...
That's fatal, isn't it?
Fatal in a lot of ways. There's no way, A, to say when,
it could be in-utero. It could be a stillborn.
He would have a very short term life,
full of shunts, surgeries and seizures until he would pass.
So, all the doctors that I talked to said that he's not a viable child.
And, that he would eventually just be vegetated
and the most loving thing I could do is to let him go now.
We just didn't wanna have to make the choice later
'cause I don't know if I could.
Say, to not ventilate him, or to not do something to save him,
Seeing him then, so I just couldn't...
I don't think I could make that choice then.
So, I didn't wanna have him suffer anymore than he had to.
And that is really the important that he had somewhat of a dignified birth.
You know, that wasn't just, you know, the fact that we have the option
to spend some time with him afterwards was really important.
Yeah, and you will, and you will.
That's part of the grieving process and you need that.
- Yeah. - Yeah, I'm so sorry, so sorry.
Thank you - Yeah, okay.
- I'm good... - I'm glad that you're that good.
Yeah, I don't wanna say goodbye.
I hear such hugely sad things...
That it just brings tears to my eyes.
And sometimes fetal indications patients, often they wanna see and hold their baby.
And in a viewing were somebody is holding their baby
that had something horribly wrong with it
and they just decided to terminate the pregnancy
because they couldn't bear the idea of putting their baby
through a lifetime of pain and suffering.
And then the only time they get to say hello to their baby,
they have to be saying goodbye to it, too and you can just see it,
rips them apart and it's hard to sit and watch somebody else
be horribly sad, without being sad oneself.
That's one thing that makes this work so trying.
Bellevue, Nebraska.
Both of our children rode horses in New Jersey
when I was in medical school. It was their hobby.
So when were moving out here,
we have promised they're gonna have horses.
- Two horses. - Two, one-one each.
- One each. - So, when it just sort of snowballed,
eventually ended up as a business, boarding for forty horses.
And at that time I was a general surgeon and had a general surgery practice
on the other end of town.
And my friend was the nursing director of one of the abortion clinics in Omaha.
I watched a couple of procedures but the technical part
wasn't really what I was interested in.
It was just talking to them and their decisions in their discussions.
And so I started working for them in April of '88.
Then, the fire happened in '91.
The horses were just all dead while they were in the stalls
just on the ground and burnt.
And the barn, everything was down, everything was gone.
There were four horses that survived and twenty-one that died.
My daughter was, it's her 24th birthday, I got a call at about three.
The police said, "Do you know where your daughter is?"
And I said, I don't know but I'll try to find her.
Then I finally got a hold of her and she would say, "That clinic."
That's where the story here. I said to myself that,
if Geneva is okay I wouldn't be upset with the fire.
- Yeah, so... - And I wasn't for a long time, you know.
The next day we got the letter from the protesters
justifying the killing of horses, you know, since I killed children.
You know, you don't give in to terrorists,
because it only gets worse.
That's what really made me decide and I just said well,
if they want me to quit, then, I will, I'll quit everything else.
So that's when I started working for Dr. Tiller.
And that's where I was able to learn third trimester abortions.
That was back in 1997 and and the Republican Party said,
I was an abomination and should be driven from the state.
So that's where I am with the State of Nebraska.
Those are just beautiful, the card is darling.
That's beautiful, that's really beautiful.
I know that everyday here isn't very easy but days like that,
like you really gave us a really great gift.
Thank you.
And it's all very precious to us.
It was, it was, it was precious to me, too
and it was clear that it was precious and wonderful. I mean...
And everybody who's here is so loving.
Like, I mean I've never met like, more caring and loving people
than I... Like I sit down here and listen to these people
who shout at you from the outside.
And I think the exact opposite
is happening in the inside of the building.
So nice of you to say.
It's just been such a precious experience.
Yeah, any regrets?
No.
It was... I was very glad that Hudson was... He was very beautiful
and you could tell by feeling that there was something wrong.
- Yeah, he was really sick. - Yeah.
So, we knew that either way it would have been
a tragic story for him.
Yeah, yeah.
- Alright... - Okay.
- Well, one more hug. - Okay.
- Thank you so much for everything. - Thank you.
Yep.
Okay, I just thought the other day, I can't retire, my God.
There aren't enough of us, I can't retire.
Okidoke.
What they have in the paper about abortion this last month
I think stirs up people much more,
they don't give it much thought until they start putting a lot of things
in the paper like they have.
Right, how many times have we received threatening phone calls
because of what I do?
- I don't know. - How many times, do you think?
I don't know anymore.
People call and I just hang up. I just... you know I can't.
- But they call you? - Yeah.
What did your friends say?
You know, I didn't pay that much attention to it any more.
I mean you know I said you were doing what you felt like you needed to do.
I mean... I really hope that one of these days that you feel
that you could enjoy the rest of your life.
I would like you to be able to say,
"Okay somebody else is gonna do this, I'm gonna go do my thing now."
Yeah.
- That's what I would like... - Yeah, good, if it were possible.
That's what I would do.
Okay, I understand.
But getting somebody else who wants to come and do this,
is very difficult, pretty close to impossible.
- Okay. - Okay I'll see you.
- Take care. - Okay, no running in halls, okay?
- I'll try to behave myself. - Alright...
Okay. Take care.
- Alright, I'll see you now. - Alrighty, bye bye...
I got a deal here so I got a season pass next year.
Apparently, I can use it today or something?
- Yeah. And you're over seventy. - Yeah.
Alright. You wanna have a seat, we'll get your picture.
- Mug shot go ahead. - Mug shot.
- Okay here ready? - Alright ready, smile...
One, two, three, alright...
The work I've done has been, very very fulfilling for me.
But the anti-abortion attacks have had a terrible effect on my personal life.
I set-up the clinic in 1973 and I immediately started
getting death threats in the middle of the night.
And I started sleeping with a rifle by my bed because
I believed that they were ready to carry out those threats.
An example was in first week of March, 1988,
I got five shots fired through the front windows of my office.
And so, you know, when I walked out the door of my office,
I expect to be assassinated.
I don't know which one is carrying a gun.
My first marriage ended in 1988 and I was desperately unhappy about that.
I didn't want it to end. And the constant attacks
from the anti-abortion fanatics were part of that.
And many, many times I felt so alone.
And like, what is the point of this, you know? Why? How can I go on?
Hey Shelley, this is Susan, first of all, Happy Birthday.
I completely forgot that it was your birthday
and then in horror I realized that's it's also Dr. Tiller's birthday.
So, when you get home at your convenience give me a buzz, okay? Bye.
The house that I live in is up high and there was one time
that a Federal Marshall came and paid me a visit.
He said, "Well this is very good."
This would be a hard shot even with a sniper rifle."
"Good. I'm glad."
In my residency, I did OB-GYN and I was at a Catholic hospital.
So I never learned to do abortions, it never came up.
And then what really got me interested was when they started shooting doctors.
You know, they shot the two docs in Pensacola.
And I thought, "My God," you know, everybody's gonna get scared
out of doing it and then who's gonna do it?
Yeah, there's two reactions to being bullied.
One is to sort of go, pull your head in and try to get away from the bully.
And the other is to say, "Yeahhh," that's how I feel, yeah!
My husband is amazing. He's very, very proud of what I do.
And I don't think he's really afraid either.
He thinks about security in his...
But not in an obsessive way,
that affects his life badly at all.
But, my being away from home is quite trying for him.
It is hard to be traveling all the time.
My wife totally supports me, and I could not do this work without her
absolutely not.
We met actually in midwifery circles,
and I think because she was a midwife herself
I think she also really appreciates this work.
But whenever I leave my home,
I have a tremendous amount of sadness of leaving.
And then I started seeing patients and they're just amazing.
So I go through that cycle endlessly.
I've been going through that for years now.
That's just how my life is.
They're two of the strickest abortion laws in US history.
Nebraska Governor Dave Heineman signs into law
two new abortion measures.
Now on the books is a law saying that doctors will be charged with a felony
if they perform abortion after 20 weeks because at that point,
there is "subtantial evidence"
that an unborn child has the physical structures
"necessary to experience pain."
But pro-choice groups point to the American College of Obstetricians
and Gynecologysts which says,
"There is no legitimate scientific information that supports the statement
that a fetus experiences pain."
The Nebraska governor has put himself squarely in the middle
of a probable Supreme Court controversy.
Hello. Where are you from?
How far along in pregnancy are you?
Probably only two choices, is there fetal anomaly or...
Since the "Fetal Pain Act" took effect,
we're sending a lot of people to Dr. Hern, Dr. Sella and Dr. Robinson,
now that we would've done a month or two ago.
- This one I gave Albuquerque a warrant. - Yeah
I said, is there a problem with the fetus? "I just found out she's pregnant."
And she thinks it was like...
Yeah, the sad part is that some women
won't come up with the extra money to travel to one of the many clinics.
And then again there'll be some that can afford to,
but they end up losing everything they have in order to do it.
And some women won't have the child that they know they can't have
because they don't have the option.
And some women may get desperate and do things on their own.
Okay when was that taken?
Okay, and is there a femur length also, or an FL number?
Okay, so basically based on that if she came into the office next Tuesday,
the fee for the procedure could be as much as $10,000.00 and it would basically be
a four-day outpatient procedure.
Okay, alright. No problem okay, bye bye.
So how're you feeling?
A little, you know, down.
- Are you? - Yeah, 'cause I mean,
I never thought this was gonna happen to me
and I went to one doctor and they told me
that the baby had the Mowat-Wilson Syndrome.
Yeah.
And these babies were moderate to severe mental retardation...
- That's pretty sad news. - Yeah.
And, if they would talk, they would talk 25 words or less.
- How far along were you at that point? - Five months and two weeks.
They just passed a law in Nebraska to keep doctors from doing this there.
Yeah, that's why I couldn't have it done there,
'cause they can't do it 20 weeks and beyond.
So, and it's hurtful because it was a planned pregnancy and I did want it.
- Right right.. - But I mean,
I'd rather her not, you know, not suffer.
Right - So...
My job is to help you get through this safely
so you can go on, live your life
and maybe have other pregnancies that would be healthy in the future.
That's my idea. Okay? Alright.
- I'll take care of myself. - Okay, alright, okay...
You did fine.
- Thanks. - Go ahead and cry.
Thank you.
Okay, why don't I just give you this whole box of Kleenex?
Thank you...
You're gonna need it. It's a long way back to Nebraska.
- Yeah. - Yeah.
- Can we eat now? - Is it lunch time?
So when we're finished here, Susan,
I need to talk to you about a woman that called from France.
I feel quite certain we are not able
to see her but I promised her that I would talk with you about it.
- How many weeks? Many. - Ssshhh...
- Fetal anomaly? - No.
Was it a compel... Very compelling? I mean, you know, I was...
- No. - No?
Only, not really... I mean, only in that, you know,
she already had one negative pregnancy test,
because she was having, I guess light periods or something.
But then you know, decided, well it's negative so I don't know...
You know, while having my period, blah blah blah blah...
Went to the Ukraine, was there for three months in the middle of nowhere.
Really didn't think about it, except that she started feeling, you know...
Bloated.
- God poor woman... - In pain and things like that...
Finally when she get back to France, then she was able to determine
that she was indeed, pregnant.
When I worked in Kansas, Kansas law required
that the patient present a story that compelled you, the physician
to believe that this pregnancy threatened her life,
or her emotional health, mental health, family health,
safety or well being.
And those patients were carefully screened on the phone.
And then when I got to Kansas, they had to present the story
to a second doctor who's not affiliated with the clinic
and that's not true in New Mexico.
The law is different in New Mexico. So suddenly I found myself
being faced with patients who didn't have anywhere
near the compelling stories that they had in Kansas.
And yeah, it's a struggle for me to figure out.
Is it okay for me to say,
"No that's not a good enough story, I'm not doing an abortion for you."
And then this is, Michelle...
Because you know, you're really on your own out here.
Trying to figure out what's, what's the right thing to do.
What's really helping people?
- Holy crow. - Yeah I know...
- I'm awfully sorry... - I know...
I would love to help her, I would love to help her...
Uhumm...
Because in a way, we're sort of a court of last resort here.
I mean, if won't help somebody, they're not gonna get an abortion.
Really.
God, I hated that. I would...
She's just too far along and I can't help her.
I knew she would be. But, you know,
I told her that I would, talk with you, and so I did.
Hi, is this Michelle? Michelle, I talked with Dr. Robinson
and I'm very sorry but she's not able to do the procedure here
for you in our clinic, okay.
She feels that it is just too far in the pregnancy for us
to you know, to do this procedure here in this, in our office.
It's not possible to talk with her directly, unfortunately.
She is in surgery this afternoon, with other patients
so she is not available.
And we did talk, she and I for a little while about this
and she is, she's very clear that she's not able to do
this procedure here for you, Michelle, and I am very sorry.
Other than Dr. Hern in Colorado,
I'm not sure that there's anywhere else.
Well, our clinic will go to 28 weeks
and then after that it's strictly case by case,
and up to the doctor.
Uhm, usually at this point we're only able to see women
if there is a very, you know, severe fetal anomaly or something,
you know, that they're referred to us by their doctor for. Uhm.
So, I think that is, you know, perhaps looking at adoption
as the alternative at this point.
You need to perhaps make a plan for.
Okay?
I'm very sorry and I wish you the best.
Okay, alright bye.
- They're hard. - Yeah, they're hard.
So, do you have a patient you wanna tell me about?
Yeah, she's 19 years old, she has a three year old son,
she's in school full-time at college.
This week there's just no way we can afford
daycare for two kids, no way.
I asked her, you know, had she thought about adoption?
She said that she feels that
if she has to continue the pregnancy and have this baby, she's gonna keep it,
and they'll just have to figure out a way to do it.
She's certain she'll have to quit school.
Of course now, she is way far. She is 28 weeks now.
Uhm. So, what do you think?
We're already in Omaha.
When we get on the other side of this lake, we're in Council Bluffs.
Tonight we're breaking a story about to make the national headlines.
The Doc Carhart calls Nebraska law unconstitutional.
So in the meantime he says it's time to expand to other states
with less restrictive laws including, Iowa.
Carhart plans to open a new clinic in Council Bluffs by January.
As far as the laws about abortion, Iowa is a lot better than Nebraska.
At least their politicians are more willing
to stand up for what they believe in.
If we'd put drapes on, it would be fine for a waiting area.
But that one place, with... Every room had big windows in it.
But this is where they said that we could bring the fence down here...
And if people could come out this door and in and out this door
you wouldn't have to ever worry about who's coming in and out.
- Right, just bring it out to like... - There'll be no gate out here.
- We'll put the fence like here. - No, a lock-gate out here.
We'll put a 6-foot fence there in order for them to see over that,
they'd have to go way up in the air, so.
- And this like a little... - And put the gate there but then this...
- No I wouldn't bring it up to there. - Okay.
Packedh ouse tonight
at the Council Bluff's City Council Meeting
as hundreds protest the planned clinic which would offer abortions.
LeRoy Carhart wants to move to Council Bluffs, Iowa,
to our city and our state to do abortions on babies
that term 20 weeks or later.
We already have an abortion facility in Council Bluffs.
So as a city, as a people, we've already seriously compromised,
betrayed the fundamental goodness of life.
I brought my son with me this evening.
He was born at 27 weeks gestation.
I brought a couple of little things to show you,
his little diaper, his first outfits...
Late term abortions are even opposed by over 95% in
by people who are pro-abortion rights.
This is where everybody draws the line.
I very much am concerned about the economic impact that this clinic
is gonna have on our city.
We have struggled dramatically with our image and I know
that this is not a calling card that we want to be known for.
I know I personally have been talking to landlords behind the scenes.
I know other council members have, too.
Tonight the City Council voted to put a deed restriction on a property
on Avenue G, that they believe Carhart may have been considering for a clinic.
Hear, I said that on the television
the day that Dr. Tiller was murdered, that we have been at war.
We've been at war since Roe V. Wade was passed,
except there's only been one side that's been fighting this war.
We've been sitting back and letting them
take over the government, take over the school boards and
the little local governments and work their way up
to power into the state and federal level.
And I think I have the ability to get the new practice going
and I just think this is something that needs to be done.
I'm talking to your wife that, me organizing a little posse
that would watch over you.
You know what being in Boulder is the main thing, okay?
But if, you know, one of these guys decides to show up and hurt me,
there's not very much anybody can do about it, you know?
I just try to watch what I'm doing and you know, and make it
politically too expensive to bother me.
But I appreciate it very much.
Well, I say a prayer for you every night.
Thank you very much.
Don't use up all your credibility on that, you know.
A few years ago, I had been invited to speak at a conference
on abortion in Barcelona, and there was a gorgeous woman
sitting in the front row and I decided I wanted to meet her.
And we enjoyed getting to know each other and, she had
this little boy who's wonderful.
And it was the first time that I felt that I could enjoy my personal life,
to the extent that I had not.
So eventually she came here and we got married.
Say, say whiskey - Balvino.
The anti abortion attacks had been frightening for Fernando.
And he knew Dr. Tiller, he met him.
Dr. Tiller was killed and he's worried about this happening to me.
So this is a profoundly, traumatic experience for everybody in my family,
starting with Odalys, Fernando and with my mother, you know,
who worries about my safety.
I've faced these threats before when I was single but it's not
the same as having a family that's around you all the time.
And it's been hard for me to feel sometimes that...
That I can continue.
Sasrita, tell me when did you realize you were pregnant?
- All the way back in October. - Really, what's been going on?
- Everything is going on. - Yeah?
Like one thing after another and I just kept pushing it back.
"Okay well, I'll get this money this time,"
and then, you know, as it goes on,
- the fees go up, so there's more money. - Yup.
So finally I said, "Okay, when I get my taxes, I can go."
Got my taxes and went and I was too far.
It must be a bit of relief just to get here?
Yeah because I was actually supposed to come maybe 3 weeks ago.
And I forgot what happened
in the first week, my son got sick.
He was in hospital for a couple of days.
- Uhumm. - Yeah.
- That's a lot going on. - Yeah.
You know sometimes people think, "", you know, "why didn't you just
continue the pregnancy and adopt out the baby."
What do you think about that?
I can't take care of myself with this baby. I've been drinking.
No prenatal. I already have two kids. I mean I would if I could but
I really can't.
Okay.
- So who's with your kids now? - Their dad.
- Does he know you're here? - He knows I'm here, he knows the reason.
My family knows I'm here
but they think it's just for vacation.
- A vacation in Albuquerque? - Yeah, yeah.
What do you think would happen if you told them?
I don't know, I don't even wanna think about that.
They would probably call me a murderer or something.
Yeah.
- Are you okay with your decision? - I'm getting there.
It's like I'm dealing with God and myself, so I'm like,
"Will He forgive me? Will I forgive myself?
But I know this is what I need to do."
'Cause you know, I know... I know this is what I need to do.
I've just been praying and hoping God forgives me.
And I'll be all right with myself.
Yeah, yeah. You know, none of us is perfect.
- That I do know. - Yeah.
And you know, this whole thing made me realize don't judge nobody,
you don't know what the next person's going through.
So, don't judge them 'cause I don't want anybody to judge me
for my decisions that I make in life.
Yeah, God wants you to be okay, don't you think?
I'll be okay. It's like, you know,
- it's the beginning of the process so... - Yeah.
I think I'll be at peace when this is all over with, you know.
Yeah, thank you. Any questions?
I think for some providers, what's difficult about third trimester abortion,
and not just providers, is that
the woman delivers a baby
and it's a stillborn.
And that's hard to deal with.
Good morning, how was your night?
I think the reason I've struggled is because I think of them as babies.
I don't think of that as a fetus.
To me I-I think of that as, a way to distance myself from what I do.
I mean it's one thing when it's a first trimester abortion
and what you see is a little bit of tissue.
But if you go all the way the other extreme you cant say
that's, some tissue, that's not tissue, it's a baby.
Then you have to think about it, you know, it's like wa-what are you doing,
and why are you doing it.
Yeah, you get that and we're also putting in Pitocin in your IV...
Go ahead and put your legs down, go ahead and put your legs down.
Well, it's inside the mother
and she can't handle it for many, many extremely desperate reasons.
What drives women to seek a third trimester abortion?
Unless people understand what's going on for the woman.
It's impossible to support it, how could you, really?
I mean it sounds, it sounds barbaric, doesn't it?
After what happened in Iowa, we met with our attorneys
and said, "where is the best place to go",
"for the laws?" and Maryland was without any question
the best place for all that.
It was hard to find landlords because no one will rent to us.
But eventually we found a clinic here in Maryland.
I'm not gonna be naive and say that Operation Rescue
may not come and target us in Maryland because they certainly may.
I don't think they're gonna get a very warm reception in Maryland.
It's time we took authority because we are spirit filled,
instruments of Christ and if we don't stand in opposition
to this late term abortionist, he will wreck and ruin
and destroy your whole community.
In 1991 I stood with 80 pastors on the streets of Wichita, Kansas
and we covenanted with God to believe that Wichita would be abortion free.
It took 19 years but today, the City of Wichita, Kansas,
is abortion free.
It is an example and a prophetic witness of what God has done,
and what God will do.
Dr. Tiller, he always said, "Well, you know, it could be you or me."
and I don't wanna be the next but I think that this is where
somebody now has to say, "enough is enough."
Carhart's here, it's discouraging, it's frustrating.
Brothers and sisters, it's happened before, it's gonna happen again,
God will do something amazing, let's pray.
Okay.
- Sus... - This is not good...
This is not good... a sign like that.
You know, all the years I've been doing this Susan, this is like only
the second time that I don't think I can counsel this patient any further.
I mean that I can't be there for her if we talk through with this.
And I rarely give up on a patient but, okay so she-she called last week
she was approved by Shelley, here's her intake here
let's pull it out quick, 16 years old, she's 25 weeks today,
she hates herself, she's mad at herself that she let this happen,
she's been pro-life, she thinks this is killing her baby,
and then Joan said, "You know, how are you gonna forgive yourself?"
"I don't know if I ever will."
She's catholic and, "Will you go to confession?"
"Yeah, I'll probably go to confession."
How would she forgive herself if she had the baby?
Well, we talked about adoption.
They met with the boy. They met with the boy's parents.
They met with the mother, altogether. They all want her to have it.
"Keep the baby." "This is wrong." "You're killing a baby." "This is wrong."
The boyfriend's parents said, "We'll take the baby."
"We'll raise the baby."
But, she says, she didn't think he could walk away from the baby
but she doesn't want a baby.
And I looked at her and I, you know, the look in her eyes
is just like-like she hates herself.
And so, is she gonna be bitter over this for the rest of her life?
Is she gonna, you know, try to harm- or she gonna become one of these...
Is she gonna become an alcoholic?
Is she gonna try to do self-harm?
You know the anti's out there say, "You're never gonna get over this."
Well, this is one I think that she's not gonna get over-
I mean, I have to be honest with you.
Okay.
Joan said, well, you know, she's saying she doesn't wanna have a baby
and she's saying that you know,
maybe she can never forgive herself
and I guess we'd have to let her have that.
Right. I mean we're...
- But... - We can't protect people from...
- I know. - Regret, if she want's-I mean if she...
- but I don't feel... I... - Right. You don't wanna participate.
- Could participate in this anymore. - Okay.
So, you think I shouldn't do it?
- I don't... no, I don't think so. - Okay.
But, you know, like I said I can't make that decision. I can't.
- So, I... - I don't like it.
I'll go talk to her and what I may say is,
I want you to go back to the hotel and think this over and if you...
You come back tomorrow and tell me that this is what you want,
I mean, that would be I guess my fallback position,
rather than just send her home to Nevada.
- No. Yeah, I know, I know. - To say, we're all uncertain
that this is the right thing for you.
So, I want you to go home or go back to the hotel
and think deeply about this
and come back and tell us if this is...
that this is what you have decided and what you want.
But again, I feel yucky.
You can't solve everybody's problems.
Well, I know I can't but, dammit, I want to.
Me, too.
I wanna solve everybody's problems.
My name is Susan Robinson.
I'm the doctor.
- Lucy. - Hi, Lucy.
- Nice meeting you. - Nice to meet you, too.
Do you feel like introducing yourself or
telling a little bit about how you came to be here and what's-
It's been a bit- quite a catastrophe for you.
Uhm, I'm from Reno, Nevada.
And I was kind of in denial up until like a month ago.
Then I was too scared to tell my mom,
just as far as disappointment.
Yeah.
When I actually could tell her,
we had a talk about it, it was too late.
Women come here having decided that
this is not a pregnancy that they can or want to sustain.
And, where does-where do-
where does it come from that I get to say, "Yeah? Well, why?"
Why? Why do you want an abortion?
You explain it to me, justify it to me.
Why is that fair?
What if you're just not a good storyteller?
Why would it be okay for me to say,
"No, you've got to tell me
a better story than that."
Because what I believe is that women
are able to struggle with complex ethical issues
and arrive at the right decision
for themselves and their families.
They are the world's expert
on their own lives.
So, if somebody comes in and she says,
"I want an abortion,"
whether or not she is articulate about it,
let alone whether she has
a great story to tell, isn't the point.
The point is that
she has made this decision.
And, you know,
if... when you take a stand like that and then,
okay, start pushing the limits, start pushing the limits.
Eventually, you'll arrive at a place where you say,
"I couldn't do that," you know.
But, I think if you're gonna... for me,
if I'm gonna turn down a patient,
it should be because I think
it's not safe to take care of her.
I think that's the really the only reason
that it's fair to turn a patient down.
To me, she sounds completely clear.
I mean, I said, look, of course,
you don't want an abortion.
Nobody wants an abortion.
You have three choices.
You can have a kid that
you say you can't take good care of;
You can have a kid
and give it to somebody else,
who you know or don't know;
Or you can have an abortion which
you think is the wrong thing to do.
Those are your three choices,
they all suck
but you have to pick one of them.
And she said, "I am committed."
She said, "I am committed," three or four times.
And I said, "So, you've struggled"
with this decision and you've arrived
at what you think is the best choice
that you have available to you,
and you feel bad about it,
you regret it already.
But, you think
"it's the best of your choices."
And she said, "Yes."
And I said, "You want me to go ahead with this?"
And she said, "Yes."
And she said, "I've had plenty of time"
to think about it. I'm committed."
Okay.
Maybe she just couldn't bring herself
to say, "Yes, I want an abortion."
Nobody, fuckin', wants an abortion.
And she did great.
She did.
Hey hey, WA has got to go!
Remember that could have been you.
It could have been you in that womb.
It could have been you, sir.
This is not a happy day for our nation
and particularly for the State of Maryland.
For today, LeRoy Carhart,
now the most infamous late-term
abortion provider in America,
has come to open his business here.
We are gathering here this morning,
as a witness for life.
We are sending a clear message
to LeRoy Carhart and to every business,
and doctor's office, and dentist office
in this plaza, that we will not be silent.
We will not be complacent
while women are being brutalized
and viable children are dying.
We want every business owner to know
as long as this is the home
of LeRoy Carhart,
it's now our home.
We are going to be here.
We are going to pray.
We are going to stay.
On back to school night
at a Maryland Middle School,
protesters stationed themselves outside
the middle school carrying graphic,
bloody anti-abortion signs.
The protesters were at
that particular middle school
because the father of a student there
owns the property where.
Doctor LeRoy Carhart works.
So, to protest Doctor Carhart,
the protesters picketed the school
attended by the child of the owner of
the property where the doctor practices.
The anti-abortion people, also, put up
a website with all of Todd Stave's contact information.
The site urged people to contact
Todd Stave and ask him to cancel
the doctor's lease, close down his clinic
and not to allow anybody to replace Doctor Carhart.
The thing with the school, it aggravated the owner enough
that he got very, very-
he took it really personally.
And now, if Todd tells me to move,
yeah, then I'll have to move.
And I think, if we don't fight back
it will go away.
The abortion will not be available.
Wanna call the police or does that seem like a car block problem?
A welcoming committee out here today.
They got a couple of little kids! How nice!
Just what you need, your kids, out in the cold.
Absolutely!
I think that the community of Wichita
was responsible for Doctor Tiller being killed and of course not directly.
They didn't pull the trigger.
But there was such a climate of disdain at its best
and hatred at its worst, for him.
Everyone loved him when they needed him,
when, you know, when their kid needed an abortion.
Well, of course, they wanted him because he was the best.
But, that was all secret.
But, aside from that, he was a pariah.
And it was on all levels, all levels.
It was amazing and it continues.
You know, there's a woman who is trying to open an abortion clinic in Wichita
and her landlord will not renew her lease to perform abortions because.
Operation Rescue has threatened them.
So, who wants to have a tenant where there's gonna be protesters
outside all the time.
That's what's really maddening to me,
that here this provider was killed in Wichita
and yet nothing has changed.
It's almost like people where relieved.
Now, we don't have to deal with this anymore
and we don't want to deal with it anymore.
It's abortion free.
It's disheartening. It's really disheartening.
Joining us tonight for the interview is Todd Stave,
the Maryland entrepreneur who was targeted at his child's middle school.
Thank you very much for being here tonight.
I appreciate the chance to talk to you about this.
- Thank you for having me. - How did you decide
the right way to respond to these protesters?
Well, I've actually been a victim of this sort of thing for my entire life.
My father was a-an abortion provider
and I remember when I was a junior in high school back in early 80's,
my father's clinic was firebombed.
So, I was, I've been around this sort of thing for my entire life
and to-to go in front of my daughter's middle school
and attempt to humiliate me and attempt to humiliate my daughter,
I needed to fight back.
Mr. Stave started taking down the names and phone numbers
of the people who called him to call the people back who had been calling him,
to thank them for their thoughts and to tell them that,
no, he would not be shutting Doctor Carhart down.
He couldn't legally, even if he wanted to and besides he didn't want to.
He supports women's rights.
As a landlord, you know, I support you.
That's wonderful.
And I'm not gonna tell you to stop or kick you out.
Yeah, I can only hope that when you ultimately retire
that somebody else takes your place.
You know, I think he felt they had no right targeting him because
he was a property owner and he was leasing the building to somebody
doing something legal.
And they were purely doing this to intimidate him
and he had the intestinal fortitude to say, "You're not gonna do that."
Really, I wanted you to know how much I really appreciate what you're doing
alright, bye bye, Todd.
Things have changed since Doctor Tiller's death
and it's a shame that George had to die to get that started.
But, I think indeed he did get a lot of the dialogues started
that's going on today.
And, we don't have Doctor Tiller anymore but we still have the four of us
that are still practicing.
And, I think George would be proud that we are carrying on his work.
Unfortunately, the Friday before he died, he had called me and he said,
"I want you to come down Sunday because I'm not gonna be here."
I'm planning on the three of you running the clinic
"and I'm just gonna spend time with my family."
He just really wanted to enjoy being the grandfather.
And so, you know, the loss of the practice and the loss to women where great.
But, the loss to his family was probably
the biggest-the biggest loss that occurred.
- You think? - Yeah.
They said that the little baby's bones are breaking inside the womb.
And that, if he survives birth,
he will only live for three or four years,
in immense pain.
Just holding him could break his bones.
How could I bring our child into this world to suffer like that?
Being an abortion doctor is something that I have to do.
It's something I need to do, I want to do it.
But, until a few years ago, when I met my wife,
it made me feel extremely isolated and very lonely.
You know, this is a... This is not a subject which is easy.
And, you know, people can disagree.
See you in the afternoon when I come back in the afternoon clinic.
Okay, Sweetie.
Bye.
- Okay. Alright. - Take good care of you. I love you.
Okay. Yeah, see you later. Bye.
You know, I never even planned to practice medicine,
much less specialize doing abortion.
So, here we are.
What did you want to do?
Well, I wanted to be a race car driver.
I wanted to be a photographer, and photo journalist, and a writer,
and I wanted to have a family.
I wanted to be an epidemiologist.
- What you are. - Yes.
You are pretty much everything you said but a race car driver.
There are times, if you were following me, Fernando,
you might think you were mistaken about that.
But, I haven't done that with you and your mom in the car.