Tell us how you did it today
winning here in Munich for the first time since 1991.
Borussia Dortmund beat
Bayern München 3-1 at the Allianz Arena.
Bayern weren't prepared for our attack, that's clear.
Was that not an early title celebration?
Somehow you sense football history being written in the Allianz Arena.
Who is going to prevent this title win?
To this day it's something people still talk about.
I'm not going to sugar-coat it, this defeat hurts us.
For us this game was about optics as well for us.
We wanted to restore the order somewhat.
The best team in Germany is, we can be honest,
Borussia Dortmund.
CHAPTER 3 BLACK AND YELLOW
2011 It wasn't a time when
you were winning ten Bundesliga titles in a row like nowadays.
Back then it was sometimes Bayern, sometimes Werder Bremen.
Even Hamburg back in the day.
Then came Dortmund.
Dortmund had a top coach in Jürgen Klopp.
He pushed them, he pushed the entire club forward.
Jürgen was a massive part of it, of course.
That phase we were in back then
came during a completely different situation to today.
Nowadays in Germany
people are always saying it's high time that Dortmund end Bayern's title run.
Back then, it wasn't on anyone's mind.
No, because we always have the mia san mia mentality every year
that we will be champions again.
That's always our mindset.
But Dortmund had also improved, you have to recognise that.
Back then under Jürgen Klopp
they had undergone
an amazing development.
But it took some time and we gave ourselves that time because
we had been through a difficult phase
at Borussia Dortmund, in which we hadn't had much
success on the pitch.
We had financial problems.
Until September 2006 we were
in insolvency proceedings
Then Jügen arrived in 2008.
We pulled of some really good transfers too.
Well they had the likes of
Gündogan, Hummels, Lewandowski, Götze,
then on the right flank they had Blaszczykowski and Piszczek.
That was a really good team, you have to say.
In 2009 we finished in sixth spot,
In 2010 we were fifth.
And I remember clearly that in the summer of 2010
none of the experts, nobody said Borussia Dortmund had a chance
to become German champions in the 2010/11 season. Nobody said it.
The entire city, the entire stadium stood like a massive wall
behind the team and that team marched
quite deservedly to the league title in 2011
and that hurt us.
Subtitle Extracted by: Aren Zohrabi
Of course, that didn't meet our expectations.
When someone else becomes German champion then we
at FC Bayern have to question everything we do.
You have to take a proper look at how it could have come to this.
At that time, Bayern were, you have to be honest and add that
Bayern didn't have that top quality.
Neuer wasn't their keeper yet.
At Schalke, he was Germany keeper who was already good
and would become even better in the coming years.
You could see that he had incredible potential.
Neuer with a massive save!
I believe that to be a great team you need a great goalkeeper.
Manuel Neuer the man of the match for me.
For me, a great goalkeeper
makes up 30 to 40% of a team.
I desperately wanted Manuel to come to us.
The first contact came with the national team,
with players of FC Bayern.
I had a great relationship with all of them
we got on well
and had already talked about Bayern München
and that they wanted to lure me there.
It was something that I thought over for a while.
Of course it's not something you can decide from one day to another.
I had made a list of pros and cons,
talked to my inner circle and across the board
the thought was that I had to also
make the decision based on football, on success on the pitch.
That was my attitude as well.
I wanted to win titles, collect titles
so there was only one option: FC Bayern.
I was still on the other side, those weren't my fans
that were against me, heckling me so to say.
In essence, those were opposition supporters then, whom I wasn't playing for.
Against us in the DFB Cup semifinal with Schalke he pulled off amazing saves.
We didn't really have a clear number one at the time.
Hans-Jörg Butt or
Thomas Kraft?
Thomas Kraft then played a lot in that second year
and did quite well.
The path for him was there.
But of course, Manuel Neuer from Schalke was in the spotlight because
he had shown what he was capable of.
So yeah.
That was aspect.
I think there were many aspects and
in the end it's the results that matter.
Schalke are in the DFB Cup final after beating Bayern 1-0 in Munich!
I think the biggest problem was we were conceding to much.
Conceding easy goals
where we gave the ball away and were extremely open defensively.
We couldn't get it right.
We know how it is when you are knocked out in the last 16
and the title bid is in danger at FC Bayern.
Then things are changed quickly.
FC Bayern has just announced that head coach Louis van Gaal will be relieved of his duties.
As a coach if you have absolute success and
win everything, then you hold all the aces.
In this case, I believe we just didn't play so well that season.
The decisive moment was when we played in Nuremberg and drew again.
He was with the team in the bus
and I was in the car with Karl-Heinz.
We said we would meet in that evening.
Louis and I would always sit together
Next to each other in the bus.
Then he got a phone call telling him
there would be talks with Uli and Kalle.
Right away he told me that he will be sacked
and that they'd ask me if I take over.
He was very hesitant because he didn't want to stab his boss in the back.
Andries Jonker asked me if he could do that.
I said: “Of course you can. It is a challenge for your career.”
Only then did I decide to do it.
Back then we were in fourth in the Bundesliga.
The aim was to qualify for the Champions League.
I asked them: “Do you want to go back to Man United next year
or do you want to play Lech Poznan?
With all due respect to Poznan.
That's not where you want to play, right?”
“No, we want to play Champions League.”
Andries Jonker taking over those games, it gave me a big boost.
I think those were the best games I ever played in my entire life.
Yes, that's always some sort of energy that goes through a team.
Some feel freed up, others get more power.
You could sense it against St. Pauli
20 minutes before full-time it was 8-1 and I said
we can't do this, we can't score ten goals here.
So then I subbed off several of the players
we said be calm, be calm.
We've done it.
The aim has been achieved and the next aim is the second team.
I still have a contract for another year there and then
we will see what happens in this football business.
You get someone new in, even if it's the assistant and suddenly it works.
Sometimes it's just like you're set free then.
Louis also was quite...
let's say opinionated.
He also got into a lot of arguments.
And perhaps one or the other of the players had a problem with it.
From day one, it was a relationship that was very difficult.
And that's always a problem with ex-players.
Ex-top players.
They think that they know what coaching is.
But that is not true.
And that was the problem from day one.
Neither Juventus nor Nuremberg.
Day one.
You keep trying until it stops working.
Yesterday it stopped working.
I've never had as many arguments with a coach as with him.
Even though today we have a great relationship.
Hoeneß and Rummenigge in charge,
then you add Louis van Gaal a third person who may have
a third opinion he will stand by completely.
With a self-confidence that perhaps
Uli Hoeneß and Karl-Heinz Rummenigge only themselves previously demonstrated.
In hindsight, I think Karl-Heinz and Uli both knew how much
he did for Bayern München overall.
I have nothing to say against Louis.
First of all, Louis van Gaal was exactly the right person to start us down that path,
I'm convinced of that. That's tough to replicate for another coach.
With that team at that time turning the club around.
Not just the team but the entire club.
I have to be honest,
with van Gaal a new tactical philosophy was brought into the entire club.
I have my own vision.
I had a lot of successes in my career
before I came to Bayern Munich.
So it worked.
So why did I have to change my vision?
In spite of all his stubbornness
he was a brilliant coach and brought about systemic change,
introducing the style of play which FC Bayern upholds to this day.
When he told the team that
he will no longer be the coach and said goodbye to the team
the great Louis van Gaal
stood in front of us and had tears in his eyes because
the team meant a lot to him.
I had always a very human good contact with my players.
That is the total human being principle.
Many had a lot to thank him for
and he made a lot of players better.
So it hurt us a lot.
Seeing his face while he was saying his goodbyes to the team.
When you have to say goodbye,
then it's always emotional.
So I think that I had tears in my eyes.
The last question:
How do you feel about FC Bayern today?
Always good.
Morning! Morning.
We always had him in our sights because he had both the quality
but above also this empathy in him.
He was kind of
you could call him 'everybody's darling' at this club.
Then he became the successor of Louis the next year.
An experienced coach, a former player who achieved basically everything
also on the pitch. I think that always plays a part.
Of course, he was also a completely different type of guy compared to Louis van Gaal.
Not as authoritative in his manner
but more through his past, his history.
First you have to create a basis for trust.
So that the players know how I am as a coach.
That I stand by what I say
That I am a man of my word.
I made the experience that it is vitally important to build
trust with the group and then you also get that back.
We had goals.
We could compete for the Champions League in the coming years
and we needed top players for the team.
Looking back there were
maybe a few major transfers which were responsible for making us
suddenly much better, raising our quality year for year.
One of those was Manuel Neuer,
the best goalkeeper in the world.
You notice something is developing because we made some key transfers.
I played for Schalke for five and a half years and
I really wanted to move to Bayern
but it didn't work out.
That's why I went to Italy for a year to Genua.
After that in December 2010 we had initial contact with Bayern München.
It was my dream to play for them.
He's a crafty devil
in the best sense, who was always there when you needed him.
He had those smarts that really
suited him to Bayern München. And I wouldn't want to do without him.
He was also a superb professional who represented the club very well.
In the same month, Bayern reached agreements
with me, with Manuel Neuer and with Jerome Boateng.
In 2009, I was in Hamburg and had to decide what to do next.
So I stayed for one more year and then move to Man City.
I got my share of game time
but not in the position I was promised I'd play.
I really wanted to play center back but I was played on the left and right
and eventually a little bit in the middle.
But I wasn't very satisfied, I didn't feel settled.
For Jerome it was a logical move.
He was a very good player
I think we signed him from England, from City.
When I knew that they wanted to have me, I said that
I really want to go to FC Bayern.
As a young player, you need a lot of discipline,
desire and passion.
You have to have fun playing football and it can never be too much.
Those are the players that make it in the end.
With David Alaba in my first year in 2011 I took him aside during training.
I told him: ''I am more than satisfied with you, it's great how you are
working and how you are training.
It's only a matter of time before you play.”
It was always my dream to break through at Bayern München.
For me, things progressed pretty quickly.
Then I made those two mistakes against Frankfurt
and then quite quickly it went back down again.
That affected me. Mentally as well.
It put me into a hole for a few months.
Where I couldn't quite get out of it.
You could notice it during training sessions and
I felt it myself.
Then I got the call on New Year's Eve,
whether I could imagine going to Hoffenheim for half a year.
I remember calling Basti that evening
to ask him for his opinion
and I decided to go for it.
For me personally that was one of
the most important steps for me in my career.
Back then I wanted to stay in Hoffenheim.
Then Jupp Heynckes became the new coach
and it was out of question for him.
The coach always demanded that I was patient.
He always encouraged me and said I would become a starter for Bayern.
I told him: “You'll play so many games that eventually you'll come to me
and say: Coach, I need a break.”
He said: “You thinks so?”
He was very serious.
For me at the time it seemed a world away.
I felt really comfortable in the team.
Then I became a start quite quickly
and my teammates really helped me
on the pitch and off the pitch.
I was regularly at Basti's house playing PlayStation.
I also had a great relationship with Holger anyway.
Let's go man, let's go!
Step on it!
It was a good group we experienced a lot together.
I'll take a bend! Left-hand bend!
We were together a lot more than
with our families and loved ones, even off the pitch.
It was really cool that even off the pitch they developed
a good group that also would spend their free time together.
We wanted to get into the mix and dived right in.
There were lots of funny stories.
Even if there were games on Wednesday and Saturday
we still went out on Saturday nights.
Really, my dad once called me to say:
I always see you partying in the tabloid papers.
People taking photos of you out.
Are you still playing football or just partying all the time?
We were out a lot.
The core was Basti, Mario and me.
Yeah that's how it developed.
Yeah, Gärtnerplatz gang
was what one paper called us.
Of course eventually the paper called us the Gärtnerplatz gang.
If you sit there every day you shouldn't be surprised.
I lived 50 meters away from the square and there are cafés and restaurants there
so it's a nice spot to sit.
Mario and Holger were there a lot too.
If I think about the fact that I used to sit there every day
in a café at Gärnterplatz, it seems absurd to me. Today, I think
I could have been doing something productive or learning something.
But at the time we needed it.
You sit there, you get compliments,
you soak that up,
the city lifts you up.
I do think it helped the vibe also within the team.
It was a homogenous unit
that just kept getting more
keen on winning titles.
That was the goal right from the start, no doubt about it.
You noticed it, also from the players who had been there the previous year already
and so there was pressure there.
I think it was a tough season again for us, right from the start
but slowly, bit by bit you could see
that we were competitive, not just competition for Dortmund
but that this year we would take the crown from them.
A lot of people rated us highly
but didn't believe we could do it again.
Many felt that
Bayern had slipped up before but next year they'll be back.
I think there wasn't a sense of certainty that season.
We knew it would get more difficult
and it was like that.
In the first half of the season it wasn't such a clear thing.
And that is Bayern time that you are seeing now, ladies and gentlemen.
Robben with the dream goal to make it 3-0, now they're tearing them apart.
We had a good feeling and were organised well by the coach
and were very confident.
We had the performances and potential to win titles.
So we went on the front foot.
Oh boy, you can't do it any better!
We had an eight-point lead on Dortmund.
Then at one point
something happened which to this day I find hard to understand.
Travelling to Munich and knowing
you'll play the league leaders and with a win
you can get back onto their heels.
Those are the types of games that make it special.
Black or red? Black!
- Okay, we'll stay here. - Okay, Dortmund will kick off.
You also had two very different
playing styles clash.
We were still influenced by Louis van Gaal
in terms of possession and having a more dominant approach.
Dortmund had a compact defensive unit
and would win the ball back and quickly transition forward and finish.
I know that Mario Götze scored and we won it 1-0.
Borussia Dortmund, the reigning German champions
beat the clear league leaders Bayern München.
In those two years we were incredibly good.
We would travel to Munich and think we can win this.
So much for claiming the title here already!
We had a phase in which we played poorly and barely collected any points.
Dortmund passed us in the table.
Then you're no longer the hunted.
For the first time in a long while Dortmund are.
We had a team that had grown together
that could basically win it all.
That self-assurance which Bayern had
for so many years and then also regained afterwards,
we had it at Borussia Dortmund.
We didn't have that self-confidence
because the previous season we were fighting just to qualify
for the Champions League.
So then you lose a bit of your confidence because of that.
So we knew that when we saw
Dortmund that this season it would be quite tight again.
I think at one point we were eight points clear of Dortmund in the league
so I got the impression that
maybe at one point we thought
we had the title in the bag.
We'll concentrate on the Champions League to make it to the final in Munich.
You can't get the points you lost on the weekend back.
That's a different competition.
We want to progress in the Champions League.
We know how great it is to play in the Champions League
so we want to get a good result tomorrow.
CHAMPIONS LEAGUE - ROUND OF 16
Basel with their home atmosphere and great stadium, sold out,
they wanted to take it down to the wire.
Basel had some great players at the time.
You saw that later
when some of them moved to the Bundesliga.
Like Shaqiri.
It was a proper top match for us.
In Basel we really pushed ourselves to the limit.
FC Bayern was not in a great phase at the time
and we fired them deeper
into their crisis.
We just weren't on form
and it was a tricky team for us.
It was really a horrible match,
a typical horrible match that you don't want to be a part of.
After that there was an interview... Do you remember?
Dragovic.
Of course I remember.
What did he say?
Yes.
Yeah, there was something.
I'm not sure what it was.
I can
It followed him.
Dragovic was still a young player and he learned a lot then.
David called me back then and was joking around with me.
What did you say there?
All I said was basically that
he's not like Messi in that he won't dribble past five players
Then we conceded seven!
How many goals did Mario score?
Four goals.
After every goal that Mario scored
he looked at Dragovic.
In the sense of, yeah that one was for you.
After every goal he rubbed it in my face.
The goalscorer, again our number 33!
Yeah he took a beating there.
Four goals from Mario Gomez, it was a dark day for me.
I shook his hand afterwards and said: “Man...”
I think he learned a lot that day.
Of course, I really put my foot in it.
Mario was a world class striker.
Not without good reason he played for Bayern.
When I've met him he's been a nice guy.
Mario had a fantastic day
and we had a bad one.
As you expect from FC Bayern, we were steamrolled by them as a small team.
7-0 was already heavy enough but after that we were just hoping
it wouldn't be double figures.
We knew we had to manage that
because if we didn't then you don't need to bother playing in the Champions League,
then you don't deserve it and should forget it.
There were so many strong characters that we didn't even allow for it
to happen that we'd have several bad games in succession.
We were pretty relaxed going into the game and because of that
I think we were pretty sure of our progression.
Exactly after nine months absence
after a bad injury I came back.
I'll never forget it:
after one training session the coach came to me and told me
you're going to play against Olympique Marseille
One year without playing and now I'm straight back in the Champions League.
Franck came to me before the game
and he said I will tee you up.
I'll get an assist for you, don't worry.
You'll score a goal.
He came over to me and said
I told you so and then later I scored a second goal.
He was a player who gave 100% every single day.
You saw when he played that he really gave everything in order to
score to help the team.
After the match in Marseille you had this game in Dortmund.
Yes, the Bundesliga match.
- For the title. - Yes.
- You win the penalty. - Yes.
- Was it a penalty? - Yes.
- Yes? - Yes.
It was pretty tight,
Dortmund were top.
We few points behind.
We had to win this match.
We knew that if we win this home game
nobody could stop us in the title race anymore.
It was a crucial point at that stage of the season.
If we win this game,
we'd have every chance of defending the title.
If we lose,
well, then things might just go as they usually go.
It was actually a decent performance from us, especially away to Dortmund.
It's not so easy facing a confident team.
You have to be fair, it was tight.
It was finely balanced.
It was really tight,
I think both teams had the chance to win it.
Manu made some incredible saves in this game.
For us it was a match on level terms.
We didn't have the best feeling.
It was 0-0,
then we concede such an awful goal.
1-0 down after a corner
where someone was playing the scorer onside.
It was incredibly emotional in the stadium.
After that it was relentless,
Bayern did everything to equalise.
There were still ten minutes to play.
And then there was that moment with Arjen.
Weidenfeller came off his line and I got to the ball first.
So I just...
well, I used his hands.
I maintain to this day that I didn't make him lose his footing
or anything like that, it was just cleverly done.
He was running towards me one on one,
I thought I would come out but not fully.
In hindsight I should have just stayed on the line.
He gave me an opportunity and I took it.
We all know Arjen well enough to understand that he wouldn't let that opportunity slip.
In that very moment you have a sort of game within your head
which will be decided in your head.
Those mind games.
Who has the right idea now to get it done.
Robben wants to take it himself.
So there was a face off:
Arjen Robben versus Roman Weidenfeller.
Will the title be decided now?
It was bad, badly taken.
That's it.
Arjen hat often gone to my right previously.
So I thought he would change it up.
It was just bad. That's all there is to say,
you don't need more.
There are always stories,
sometimes you hear or read things
from people who want to talk about these kinds of situations again.
Everyone has their own take and maybe believes in their own version.
But I remember this:
it wasn't well taken,
end of.
When Arjen took the penalty
he was insulted by Subotic.
It wasn't very gentleman like.
I like things to be fair.
When it's unfair then I lose it.
In that case, I thought it was a dive.
That's why I ran over
and I told him that.
One word I used was dive,
the other stuff was insults.
The rest you can read in my book, I think it's on page 93.
Not a proud moment for me.
You just don't do things like that.
But it didn't bother me too much in that moment.
What I learned later was that
Roman did make contact and it was a foul.
Looking back you can give the penalty.
I was more in my own thoughts. I was just very disappointed.
If I could take it back, I would.
It's not sporting from me.
I didn't care that he was in front of me.
Things weren't going Arjen's way at that time.
He played well and then couldn't convert the penalty.
He had another great chance.
With a 1-1 draw
we theoretically would still have been in the title race.
But with that defeat it was basically guaranteed we'd be second.
Runner's up.
The fact that Arjen Robben, usually a reliable penalty taker, misses that
shows the amount of pressure Bayern München was under then
and how badly they were suffering as a result of Borussia Dortmund being so strong.
I think that preoccupied them quite a bit.
From that moment you knew that we've got this thing sealed.
I think with that penalty potentially giving us the draw Arjen was very bothered by it.
Usually you have to score that
So I am very sorry for the team and the fans and I can only apologise.
That game naturally was very mentally draining.
But then you have to pick yourself up and keep going.
You can't then dwell on the fact you lost to Dortmund in the Bundesliga.
You've got to move on yourself.
Champions League against Real.
What more do you want?
MUNICH AIRPORT
And then I met Bayern again.